Sources and Methods #45: Rowing with Bruce Smith

 
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Bruce Smith 101:

Company website: Hydrow.com

Show Notes:

2:32 - If you play the piano, which I do, if like math, or you like repetitive motion, there’s  something really really compelling about the rowing motion. 

Within five years of arriving in Chicago, we’d built five boathouses. 

4:00 - [What is the best way to get nothing done?] I have a tremendous nack for tanking things quickly, and it involves me telling them how great my idea is. I’m an expert on that. I still do it, despite having my head beat in a whole bunch of times. So, the best way to not get anything done is to not listen. It took me many, many many iterations to learn that the  best way to get stuff done is to ask people questions about what they think about your idea. One or two sentences, and then ‘what do you think?’ is probably the best thing you can do. 

Presenting the facts and skipping the discussion is probably the worst way to get anything done. 

11:10 - I think that being a founder definitely requires some element of delusion and grandiosity. If you don’t have that, if you don’t believe on some level that you’re right about something,  then you absolutely cannot be a founder. It’s just extremely stressful. You have to be willing to jump off a cliff without any kind of net. If there was a net there, than 18 people would’ve already jumped. So you really have to believe in something. To me, that’s the most valuable thing.  And the people I like being around are people who believe in something to that degree. People that are actually willing to go to the edge. 

There’s an upside and a downside. If you’re crazy enough to believe in something that, that often means that you do not see reality very well. I think that really great founders are people who can survive that cognitive dissonance between believing something that is not there yet and has no evidence, so they have faith in their ability to see  something that other people can’t see. And then also the ability to take in the reality of the situation and understand that there are real gaps that you have to explain to people and walk them through. And be able to see the gaps in your own idea and your own faith. It’s a crazy tension. 

15:52 - Joseph Conrad talked about The Work. Sailing a ship across the ocean is incredibly tedious, and likened it to a sewing machine, just keep working on the machine.

16:46 - That’s one of the things about success - you have the euphoria, you have the terror. But you also have to be able to grind. And rowers grind.

18:56 - Rowing brings people together. There’s really good brain science that shows that people who do things together, like synchronous motion, build trust. 

19:35 - The more time you spend with your screen, the more  time you spend isolated, the worse you feel. What’s the best thing that I could do as a human being to help other human beings feel better about themselves? That was the motivation for the company. If someone could tell me something else that would build more trust. 

21:09 - I think a lot about the model of the tragedy of the commons. How do you get people to make decisions that are not in their personal best interest in the short run, but are in everybody’s - including their own - best interest in the long run? What I see developing in society is this horrible nexus of concerns, where the tragedy of the commons is actually coming to hit us in our daily lives, so we’re not able to make decisions in favor of the environment. We’re not able to make decisions in favor of public education. I think it’s because  people feel more alienated and more separate from their fellow human beings. We have to do something. 

I think it’s not just about the activity of the mind. It’s the mind-body connection. 

25:41 - There are three kinds of competition: positive-sum, equal-sum, and negative-sum competition. In one kind of analysis, you could say that football or hockey or lacrosse are negative-sum competitions. Two teams enter the field - the only way for us to determine a winner is for one team to make the other team lose, and the team that wins has to physically hurt themselves to take that win. 

With a positive-sum sport like rowing,  or track and field, or swimming, you can put as many teams as you want on the field. In rowing, there are six lanes, so in the Olympics six teams go down the field. All six of those crews can have a personal record in the final race. One person still wins, but everyone has come to the table and may have produced their personal record. Everyone leaves with a better record. 

That’s the kind of competition that we want to foster. Where people understand competition not as something that is negative and destructive, that involves taking something away from the other person or group, but something that lifts everybody up. By everybody bringing their best effort to the table, everybody gets better. 

That was the competitive model before two world wars - rowing used to be the most popular sport in the United States. Tens of thousands of people would watch rowing races. 

31:26 - This is really four different companies - the software, the hardware, the content,  and the marketing, all have pretty different agendas and would like to spend our money differently. But it’s also a great moment for creativity. It is unbelievably satisfying to have all these facets of human life reflected in one place. We all come together and argue all day long in order to get to the end goal. 

38:20 - I haven’t raised a single penny from a cold call. And I haven’t hired anybody without being  introduced to them through an acquaintance for a friend. I call it the Quality Mafia. You find one really great person, and hold onto them like Grim Death, and give them whatever they need to come with you on your journey. And once you find that one great person, then they know about 20 or  30 really great people. And so you put out the call to those 20 or 30 people - “You need X? Oh, I know someone who used to do that.” And you keep being honest and open with people.

42:10 - Fast, Cheap, and Good. Pick two. We chose Fast and Good. 

42:58 [On Workflow] - I use email. I star emails that need responses, and my goal is to keep the starred list around 10. 

I have a huge amount of  respect for work that happens face to face. If you’re working face to face with your direct reports, things go a lot better. I don’t know how that scales, but I think we  can handle it for this type of company, we don’t anticipate growing beyond a few hundred people.

We use Slack internally, because that’s fun. I hate powerpoints, we only use them when absolutely necessary. The power of a clear, well-constructed sentence clarifies everyone’s thinking and ensures communication is rock solid. 

I draw clear distinctions between kinds  of meetings. There are Decision Meetings, and those should never take more than half an hour. If it’s more than half an hour, then you missed the point of the meeting. There’s not enough information, you’re chasing your tail, and you should not have that meeting. 

If you don’t know what kind of decision you’re trying to make, you need a different kind of meeting. I call those Making Meetings. It’s not my idea. Basically, an hour is a minimum, and 2.5 to 3 hours if you’re mapping stuff out. Those are different things. If you confuse these two kinds  of meetings, you waste everyone’s time. 

I’m very skeptical of making very good decisions. Trying to make a decision is better than trying to make a really good decision. 

48:54 [Advice on starting a company] Start early, do it often. It’s really really fun. Don’t try to make money, do something you believe in. The money part  of it is so beyond irrelevant if you’re trying to effect some kind of positive change in the world. Then, once you get that  straight, money will flow from an idea. If you don’t have a good idea, you won’t get any money, so don’t worry. Put emphasis on values and live those values. 

That said, I love making money. Money is time, and money is freedom. It’s not like it’s not a goal, it’s a secondary goal. First goal: value. Second goal: money. 

52:15 - I think a lot about Dostoevsky, and the University of Chicago, and people who were suffering after the war. Suffering a lot. If you work at the University of Chicago, you are surrounded by this violent,  poor neighborhood. And yet, they produce the greatest number of Nobel Prize winners. You’re Fyodor Dostoevsky, and you can’t write what you want, but you create the greatest novels of all time, because you’re under this  extreme pressure. Those are just two anecdotes and I have no idea if they hold over a broader spectrum. But it seems to me that creativity comes out of some level of discomfort. Cognitive dissonance, pain, and something that happens in peoples’ lives that produces creativity. 

55:15 [On living a full life] - I will be completely didactic on this. If you want to be a complete human being, there are two things that you have to do. You have to read John Milton’s Paradise Lost, and a short  biography of John Milton. 

Then, you must read Anna Karenina. I read it every year. It is a complete compendium to all intellectual responses, human responses, emotional responses, to the existential challenges that we face as human beings. It’s a bit like the Bible - it is a complete story. It catalogues how you can respond to life. 

Books Discussed in the show: 

Sources and Methods #37: Jim Wilcox

 
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Jim Wilcox 101:

Jim Wilcox's website

'Philosophical Inclinations'

'Jim Wilcox retires after 43 years'

Show notes:

1:08 – It’s an important part of the existential view of the world. We can either join early on, the ideas that our parents and the culture we’re raised in, all just join into them, and go along with that particular flow, or we can try to find a way to step out of it. Traditional ways have been just going to another culture, to another part of the world, and looking at how other people live.

2:50 – (The existential discovery) For me it was a book that a baseball manager gave me on a baseball trip…. It was Colin Wilson (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colin_Wilson), who began to layout the existential argument. I hadn’t heard of it. I hadn’t heard of existentialism. And he began laying out the existential argument. And the existential argument has: you have to learn to step outside. If you want to know who you are, if you want to find out what is going to make you go, what’s going to give you the zest that we need in order to go forward, you step outside and examine the world from a different perspective. That will lead you to look inside because you’re no longer being captured by the environment around you. It’d be like Plato’s allegory of the cave, where you’re strapped to a chair, and you have to look at the images on the cave wall, and that’s it, that’s your whole life. And somebody else is producing those images. So you don’t know what other reality there may be. So when you do that, you may have a moment of insight where you can look inside and say ‘what would you like to do.’ And that changed my life from being a full-time Air Force guy to becoming a student.

10:32 – (On cuts to humanities budgets) This is something that undermines your faith in a culture and a society. When it can’t recognize the role of the humanities in a young person’s life. They get a lot of the moral values from their family, yes. But sometimes the family is a little limited on getting the wider range of experiences with other cultures. The humanities always opens up the door. And what it teaches us through its stories, those beautiful works of art, it teaches us empathy. Isn’t this what it’s all about? Sympathy? Connectedness? This is the goal of the humanities.

These works produce order.

12:54 – If we lose the humanities, where are we going to get the empathy? Where is that going to be produced? Religion seems to have been eroded. If we don’t get empathy fully developed at home, then our chances of ever getting it are diminished a great deal. The humanities humanize. If we don’t get it, we go around de-humanizing other people. We see people in terms of monsters. And once we have de-humanized them, you know what human beings are capable of doing to other human beings.

It’s a very difficult era that we’re going through.

15:00 – When you retire, you’ve got to have projects. Something you’re working on.

18:53 – Albert Camus is my favorite philosopher. He stood up with his philosophy as well as his novels. Remember, he won the Noble Prize in Literature. Isn’t this the perfect wedding? Philosophy and Literature?

20:30 – There are no absolutes. I’m just inclined.

21:00 – There are no absolute truths. There are truths that we create ourselves out of our experiences and what we’ve learned. And we live by that truth. But that truth is never permanent. It’s always on the very verge of changing, because more evidence may come in. Something else may show up on your doorstep.

21:45 – (if you cling to absolutes) I think that leads to an intellectual and existential death. Because you’re not going anywhere. You’re not paying attention to the world you’re living in. Because that’s what existentialism requires of you. Because the world is always changing, so something may show up that will produce change.

23:51 – Many people resist change. They resist changing their thinking because they think they have the truth. But existentialism argues that truth is a fluid thing. It’s like a scientist. Some new data may show up and we may have to change our assumptions.

27:11 – I think we need to separate pleasure and happiness. It isn’t that we should diminish pleasure. It’s that we should put it in a different context. Epicurus was right about the pleasure principle. The question is how to get to the pleasure side instead of the pain side. If we’re trapped in a materialistic world, we might see money as the pleasure principle, or buying something. My argument is that you want to take your pleasure in the humanities. If people haven’t been trained in the humanities, this is hard for them to do. Our culture has become very materialistic. This is the difficulty. My solution isn’t a great one.

34:27 – The existential way of approaching death is simple: you just keep living. Just the way you have.

Book Recommendation:

The Plague, by Albert Camus. That is the book that defines the world that we live in. It’s a perfect book.